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#1 flickmeister Geschrieben 01. September 2015 - 11:08

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Hey all,

 

I am typing this in English because if I would try to write down the situation in German it would become a giant puzzle XD

Feel free to answer in German though!

 

The situation:

Player A has 1 creature (7/7 with +2/+2 enchantment making it a 9/9 (with trample))

Player B has 5 creatures (1/3, 1/3, 2/2, 2/2, 2/2 (when this creature dies you may select a target creature which will get -2/-2 untill end of turn))

 

Player A attacks player B with the 9/9 trample creature

c0=9/9

Player B wants to get rid of this bastard and will block with all his creatures in this order:

c1=1/3

c2=1/3

c3=2/2 (when this creature dies you may select a target creature which will get -2/-2 untill end of turn)

c4=2/2

c5=2/2

 

The question is, when does the special ability of c3 apply? directly after dying before c4 even blocks (situation 1 below) or at the end of combat (situation 2 below) or after combat (situation 3 below)

 

situation 1:

c0 is blocked by c1 -> 9/9 - 1/3 -> is now a 6/8 & c1 is dead

c0 is blocked by c2 -> 6/8 - 1/3 -> is now a 3/7 & c2 is dead

c0 is blocked by c3 -> 3/7 - 2/2 -> is now a 1/5 & c3 is dead

the special ability of c3 kicks in and c0 gets -2/-2 -> is now a 0/3

c0 is blocked by c4 -> 0/3 - 2/2 -> is now a 0/1 & c4 lives

c0 is blocked by c5 -> 0/1 - 2/2 -> is now dead & c5 lives

 

situation 2:

c0 is blocked by c1 -> 9/9 - 1/3 -> is now a 6/8 & c1 is dead

c0 is blocked by c2 -> 6/8 - 1/3 -> is now a 3/7 & c2 is dead

c0 is blocked by c3 -> 3/7 - 2/2 -> is now a 1/5 & c3 is dead

c0 is blocked by c4 -> 0/3 - 2/2 -> is now a 0/3 & c4 lives

c0 is blocked by c5 -> 0/1 - 2/2 -> is now a 0/1 & c5 lives

the special ability of c3 kicks in and c0 gets -2/-2 -> is now dead

 

situation 3:

c0 is blocked by c1 -> 9/9 - 1/3 -> is now a 6/8 & c1 is dead

c0 is blocked by c2 -> 6/8 - 1/3 -> is now a 3/7 & c2 is dead

c0 is blocked by c3 -> 3/7 - 2/2 -> is now a 1/5 & c3 is dead

c0 is blocked by c4 -> 0/3 - 2/2 -> is now a 0/3 & c4 lives

c0 is blocked by c5 -> 0/1 - 2/2 -> is now a 0/1 & c5 lives

combat ends, does c0 return to 9/9?

the special ability of c3 kicks in and c0 gets -2/-2 -> 7/7 untill player A is done with his/her second mainphase

 

I am having doubts between situation 1 and 2

Thanks for the help in advance :)

 

Joris



#2 Michael W Geschrieben 01. September 2015 - 11:36

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First, the blocking order of the 5 creatures is chosen by the attacking player, not the defending player.
Second, because no first strike or double strike is involved, all combat damage is dealt at the same time. So Situation 1 is wrong.
Third, damage does NOT change a creatures thoughness, so the 9/9 is a 9/9 with 8 damage marked on it, after combat damage is dealt.
Fourth, after combat damage is dealt, the trigger of c3 goes on the stack and might target the 9/9 which results in a 7/7 with 8 damage marked on it. Result the former 9/9 dies due to statebased actions.

Edit: Danke Orwan und Iksquadrat


Bearbeitet von Michael W, 01. September 2015 - 12:25.

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#3 Orwan Geschrieben 01. September 2015 - 11:43

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Third, damage does not change a creatures thoughness

Mal den Fluchtfehler verbessert. ;)

#4 Iksquadrat Geschrieben 01. September 2015 - 11:44

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Third, damage does change a creatures thoughness, so the 9/9 is a 9/9 with 8 damage marked on it, after combat damage is dealt.

I think you wanted to say does not, didnt you Michael?

 


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#5 flickmeister Geschrieben 01. September 2015 - 11:48

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Thanks for the quick answer.

Big stinky finger for the guy I was playing against that told me the defender can determine the order of blocking creatures. I must say that i was disappointed that so many players explain wrong rules to new players to gain an advantage.

 

So if i get it right, the 9/9 card will always deal 9 damage to each blocking creature instead of what i described above that it will do 9 damage divided over each blocking creature.



#6 Gast_Pommi_* Geschrieben 01. September 2015 - 11:57

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The attacker determines the order in which the blockers get hurt . In this scenario, the attacker is probably the creature distributed dying -2 / -2 , are placed last in the series , so they do not die.



#7 Iksquadrat Geschrieben 01. September 2015 - 12:05

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So if i get it right, the 9/9 card will always deal 9 damage to each blocking creature instead of what i described above that it will do 9 damage divided over each blocking creature.

No, thats wrong, you do divide the 9 damage.

 


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#8 Tchakar Geschrieben 01. September 2015 - 12:20

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The best block you would be able to do in this scenario (without any spells, only the board obv) is to block only with 4 creatures, 3 of those 2/2 Dudes and only 1 1/3, because in that case your creatures are going to die, but his 9/9 is taking 7 Dmg from the 4 creatures and after that out of that -2-/2 effect he will be a 7/7 with 7 dmg marked on it and die because of that.

If you block with all 5 creatures your opponent may choose an order like 2/2 first, 2/2 second, 1/3 third, 1/3 fourth and the 2/2 with the dying effect 5th.  In this Scenario the first 3 Blockers are dying, so you still have your 1/3 and the 2/2 with the dying effect, BUT your opponents 9/9 is also still alive, because during that fight the big dude will only receive 8 dmg. (that's basically what Pommi wanted to explain)!


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#9 Jonnythopter Geschrieben 01. September 2015 - 12:28

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All happens at them same time, but them attacker chooses how to spread them damage bezween them defending creatures. He just has to make sure, that he doesn't give two creatures nonlethal damage, that would be illegal. I will usw your way of describing them combat, because although it isn't correct it shows very clear what happens (and how them attacker should act).

situation 4:
C0 attacks.
DefendeIng player chooses to block with c1, c2, c3, c4, c5

Attacking player chooses to spread the damage in order c1, c2, c4, c5, c3

c0 is blocked by c1 -> 9/9 - 1/3 -> is now& c1 is dead

c0 is blocked by c2 -> 6/8 - 1/3 -> is now a 3/7 & c2 is dead

c0 is blocked By c4 -> 3/7 - 2/2 -> is now a 1/5 & c4 is dead

c0 is blocked by c5 -> 0/3 - 2/2 -> is now a 0/1 & c5 lives

c0 is blocked by c3 -> 0/1 - 2/2 -> is now dead & c3 lives, so the ability doesn't trigger.

CETERVMCENSEORESERVEDLISTINEMESSEDELENDAM


Meine Freunde nennen mich Jonny. Willst du auch?


Save a kill spell to deal with this guy!

ehem. Jonny Silence/Little Jonny/Jehova/Cattlebruiser

#10 flickmeister Geschrieben 01. September 2015 - 12:36

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ich danke ihr allen für ihren hilfe!

mir ist dass nun klar :)



#11 Kalli Geschrieben 01. September 2015 - 13:07

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"Ich danke euch allen für eure Hilfe!

Mir ist das nun klar"

 

Little gramatically help ;)



#12 flickmeister Geschrieben 01. September 2015 - 14:26

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"Ich danke euch allen für eure Hilfe!

Mir ist das nun klar"

 

Little gramatically help ;)

 

:)






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